Hee Haw Rivers
The other day, Bam-bam remarked on a hand that was the epitome of stud. I like this one better. Of course the fact I won the hand may cloud my argument.
My hand was actually all spades and a weak gutshot to the wheel to start. I made a crappy two pair that is normally fold material. But, I was playing the players more than the cards. Both were very loose aggressive. The one had reraised me just earlier with just 55 and no premium cards. So, I made the boat by luck instead of counting outs.
Both, were likely chasing and both appeared to have hoped to river (maybe not in one case) me but way too late. I don't have a lot of pride over the hand but, for those who haven't played stud, it point some interesting ideas about it. First is you aren't holding a lot with top pair and even two pair like you see with Hold'em. You can always tell the Hold'em migrants who have learned that. Second, is the chasing. Second is the chasing. There is a lot of it. Some justified and a lot not. Third, getting rivered is a frequent occurance.
Both players thought they'd rivered the others. Seems they were wrong for a change. Stud takes a different mindset. It is a game where you can bluff a bit more. You get to chase a bit more. But there is an involved process in doing so that revolves a lot about the pot. Sklansky explains it well in his book. (for a change?)
Stud can be played a lot of ways. But it is finally all about outs and pot odds against hands showing. There are a lot of easy bluffs that win mini pots. And, it is a game where you can lay down hands you think a winner because of pot odds. With draws strong you can be ahead and behind at the same time.
The outcome of this hand could have easily gone a different way. The story here isn't my genius; fact is I was closer to a donkey than an Einstein. What it shows is that experiences are important and can pay off. But, it is also about the hands you're willing to lose with. What you win can often take a back seat to those you're willing to lose. It can cost to chase with a modest expected value the goal. Practice you aggression selectively.
NOTE: Because FT shuffles the down cards, my surmise is based on reads and betting more than solid fact. The straight may or may not have made it on that 6th street that also filled me up. The other may have been rolled up and slow playing. But, I like the river approach because it is so typical.
No related posts.
I wonder why they don’t leave the cards in the order they were dealt. It would help good players figure out how others play.
Emulates B&M I guess. A player can shuffle/mix his down cards at the table.
UB doesn’t shuffle. Stars and FT do.
There is a lot less info when they mix them. Hand histories really vary in many ways from site to site. The most generous at one time was PokerRoom who showed all cards including all folds. They didn’t have stud at the time but you could look at any HH at any level. That was about as naked as HH’s could be.
These days thing are hugely tight in comparison. FT doesn’t show all hands at the showdown. It mucks like B&M might by not displaying lesser hands that weren’t forced by betting to show.
HH’s are in a state of flux. There is a war between those accumulation sites that collect the info and sell it to players giving them info about people they’ve never played. Seems like FT and PS have tightened things up in several area to fight them. Those who subscribe might be accused of angle shooting in a way.
Pretty sure the rolled up Ladies were slow played/hoping to boat up. The straight was there on 6th. as well IMHO. From what I can tell for the most part, the flipped card is common in all hands shown down. Based on your summary, that ‘should’ be the 1 ~ 7th. flip for all.
I think the lure is the opportunity to plan for the opportunity to improve. (re-reading, to see if that makes any sense…..) I find in NLHE the odds to play or not pre, set most players on their chosen path. No not all! But the masses for certain I think. Where as STUD allows a variation on improvement that puts more decisions on variables, in the players hands. I always say that known facts such as dead and alive outs, helps turn our minds towards the endless possibilities.
In other words….. damn good thing those rolled up Ladies, didn’t go ahead and boat up too.
If it was rolled queens it was played very passively. Getting toward the high street one would or should sneak in a raise. Can’t say one way or the other for sure but I like my way. Maybe because I don’t look like a donkey so much.